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 Post subject: Re: Problems with UBCD since 5.2.x
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:58 am 
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Posts: 775
ctschantz wrote:
So far it appears that the problem was with the images I originally created.


Well, no. According to your own reports, the memdisk version doesn't matter, but the initial bootloader does, which goes against what Icecube said.

Either the initial bootloader is not installed "perfectly enough" :twisted: :mrgreen: , or there is some kind of conflict between some versions of some bootloaders (specifically and mostly, Syslinux 4.06) with eRompaq.exe.

The fact that I can start command.com in the same floppy images also points to such combination (Syslinux 4.06 + eRompaq.exe) as the apparent culprit.

You also had one success and one failure with the new image you just built, depending on the "initial" bootloader. In your report, you said it failed with grub4dos, but we don't know how the original media was initially booted: is grub4dos the initial bootloader, or was "SYSLINUX 4.06 -> grub4dos -> floppy image" ?

In whichever case, some initial bootloaders are working, and some don't, whether you used some version of memdisk or something else to load whichever image.

I wish I could reproduce the problem, but I don't have relevant hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Problems with UBCD since 5.2.x
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 21
I see what you are saying.

At least as a workaround, I was able to (a HUGE time suck) re-create all my image files using the new method. I tested about 10 of the 20 or so models that we support and they all appear to be working now. Its a nice feeling to be able to finally move to the latest version of UBCD.

If I can provide any helpful information please let me know. Id be happy to provide everything I can.

Thanks for all the help!


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 Post subject: Re: Problems with UBCD since 5.2.x
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:01 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 775
ctschantz wrote:
If I can provide any helpful information please let me know. Id be happy to provide everything I can.


@ctschantz,

1_ Are you booting with grub4dos first? Or with Syslinux and then chain loading to grub4dos? Which versions?

2_ Are you using grub4dos to load the image? Or instead, from grub4dos you are using memdisk to load it? (the entries in grub4dos are different between these two cases)

3_ Could you be more specific about how you are boot loading the current new images that are still failing? You mentioned at least one situation where it still failed. Describing the exact boot procedure could be helpful, so to identify what changes between the successful case and the failing one (since it uses the same image and the same eRompaq.exe on the same hardware, the only changes that may affect the success or failure would be the chain of boot loaders).

4_ For each time you re-built your UFD with different versions of UBCD, were you re-installing the boot loader to the UFD too? Or instead, you just copied the files over?

5_ How do you build the bootable UFD? Does it have an MBR? In such case, how many partitions? Or is the UFD built as superfloppy (no MBR)?

TIA,
Ady.


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 Post subject: Re: Problems with UBCD since 5.2.x
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:56 am 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 2:32 pm
Posts: 21
ady wrote:
ctschantz wrote:
If I can provide any helpful information please let me know. Id be happy to provide everything I can.


@ctschantz,

1_ Are you booting with grub4dos first? Or with Syslinux and then chain loading to grub4dos? Which versions?

2_ Are you using grub4dos to load the image? Or instead, from grub4dos you are using memdisk to load it? (the entries in grub4dos are different between these two cases)

3_ Could you be more specific about how you are boot loading the current new images that are still failing? You mentioned at least one situation where it still failed. Describing the exact boot procedure could be helpful, so to identify what changes between the successful case and the failing one (since it uses the same image and the same eRompaq.exe on the same hardware, the only changes that may affect the success or failure would be the chain of boot loaders).

4_ For each time you re-built your UFD with different versions of UBCD, were you re-installing the boot loader to the UFD too? Or instead, you just copied the files over?

5_ How do you build the bootable UFD? Does it have an MBR? In such case, how many partitions? Or is the UFD built as superfloppy (no MBR)?

TIA,
Ady.


1.) When I was having issues with Syslinux and was testing with Grub4dos, I was chainloading. So I would boot to Syslinux and then I would select the grub4dos menu and navigate to my BIOS images.

2.) In the past (with UBCD 5.1.1), I used the gub4dos without memdisk which worked fine. I referred to it as my "Old Method" in the previous post I made. Now with UBCD 5.2.4 (Even with my new images that I built) I cannot use that old method. However if I use memdisk it works fine in 5.2.4.

3.) There may be again some confusion. Ever since I re-created my BIOS Images using the method that Icecube linked to in his previous post, I have not had issues with Syslinux. I did have a problem with Grub4dos using the old method that I talked about it #2 above, however once I changed that to use memdisk it works as expected.

4.) Yes I was re-installing the bootloader each time I switched back and forth. I even tried mixing and matching bootloaders and I still had the same problem before I recreated all my BIOS images.

5.) I build the USB using the following:
Code:
ubcd2usb c:\<ubcdpath> <usbdrive>: /f

From:
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/customize.html


It looks like 5.2.5 was just recently released. I will have to see if all my BIOS images still work.


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 Post subject: Re: Problems with UBCD since 5.2.x
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 775
ctschantz wrote:
ady wrote:
1_ Are you booting with grub4dos first? Or with Syslinux and then chain loading to grub4dos? Which versions?

1.) When I was having issues with Syslinux and was testing with Grub4dos, I was chainloading. So I would boot to Syslinux and then I would select the grub4dos menu and navigate to my BIOS images.


So, "SYSLINUX -> GRUB4DOS", and I am _guessing_ they are from UBCD 5.2.x.

ctschantz wrote:
ady wrote:
2_ Are you using grub4dos to load the image? Or instead, from grub4dos you are using memdisk to load it? (the entries in grub4dos are different between these two cases)

2.) In the past (with UBCD 5.1.1), I used the gub4dos without memdisk which worked fine.


That's not what you presented in your first post:
ctschantz wrote:
Here is how I have it setup and working in 5.1.1:
Code:
LABEL -
MENU LABEL SOME BIOS
TEXT HELP
VERSION
ENDTEXT
LINUX /boot/syslinux/memdisk
INITRD /ubcd/biosupdates/laptops/SOMEBIOS.ima
APPEND raw



but later

ctschantz wrote:
I had totally forgotten that I already had grub4dos setup and working correctly on 5.1.1.. I just never use it so out of sight out of mind.


which means "SYSLINUX -> MEMDISK -> floppy image" was your "old method mostly used", and there was no GRUB4DOS in use in your "first old method".

Later, you added GRUB4DOS to the mix with your old images in UBCD 5.2.x:

ctschantz wrote:
Code:
title SOME BIOS\n SOME VERSION
map (hd0,0)/ubcd/biosupdates/laptops/2560p.ima (fd0)
map --hook
chainloader (fd0)+1
rootnoverify (fd0)
map --floppies=1

Again the above failed at the same point in 5.2.4


which means "SYSLINUX 4.06 -> GRUB4DOS -> floppy image (no MEMDISK in use)" in your "second old method".


ctschantz wrote:
I referred to it as my "Old Method" in the previous post I made. Now with UBCD 5.2.4 (Even with my new images that I built) I cannot use that old method. However if I use memdisk it works fine in 5.2.4.


But you are mentioning 2 "old methods" from UBCD 5.1.1:

(the second you mentioned as "old method")
1_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> GRUB4DOS (old) -> old floppy image ==> OK
(the first you mentioned as "old method")
2_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image ==> OK

and now you say "if I use memdisk it works fine in 5.2.4" but without specifying that - probably, I am guessing at this point of my reading - you are referring in that sentence to the new images only (not the old images).

A third old method could had been:
_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> GRUB4DOS (old) -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image

but we currently don't have information about it with the eRompaq.exe images.


ctschantz wrote:
ady wrote:
3_ Could you be more specific about how you are boot loading the current new images that are still failing? You mentioned at least one situation where it still failed. Describing the exact boot procedure could be helpful, so to identify what changes between the successful case and the failing one (since it uses the same image and the same eRompaq.exe on the same hardware, the only changes that may affect the success or failure would be the chain of boot loaders).

3.) There may be again some confusion. Ever since I re-created my BIOS Images using the method that Icecube linked to in his previous post, I have not had issues with Syslinux. I did have a problem with Grub4dos using the old method that I talked about it #2 above, however once I changed that to use memdisk it works as expected.


Which partly clarifies my guessing.

ctschantz wrote:
ady wrote:
4_ For each time you re-built your UFD with different versions of UBCD, were you re-installing the boot loader to the UFD too? Or instead, you just copied the files over?

4.) Yes I was re-installing the bootloader each time I switched back and forth. I even tried mixing and matching bootloaders and I still had the same problem before I recreated all my BIOS images.


ctschantz wrote:
ady wrote:
5_ How do you build the bootable UFD? Does it have an MBR? In such case, how many partitions? Or is the UFD built as superfloppy (no MBR)?

5.) I build the USB using the following:

Code:

ubcd2usb c:\<ubcdpath> <usbdrive>: /f




I am going to assume your UFD has MBR and one partition only, but it could be useful to have a clear report about it, which should include at least the size of the UFD, the size of the partition, its filesystem, and start/end sectors (offsets) of both (the whole UFD and the partition(s) ).




I'll try to summarize:

with DOS shell = eRompaq.exe in relevant HP hardware:
Code:
1_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> GRUB4DOS (old) -> old floppy image ==> OK
2_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image ==> OK
3_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> old floppy image ==> OK
4_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image ==> FAIL
5_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> old floppy image ==> FAIL
6_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> GRUB4DOS (new) -> old floppy image ==> FAIL

7_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> GRUB4DOS (new) -> new floppy image ==> FAIL
8_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> new floppy image ==> OK


and I would also _guess_ :
9_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> new floppy image ==> OK :?:

and we don't know about any of the possible combinations of:
Code:
SYSLINUX ( 4.04 | 4.06 ) -> GRUB4DOS ( old | new ) -> MEMDISK ( 4.04 | 4.06 ) -> ( old | new ) floppy image ==> ??


and

with DOS shell = command.com (FREEDOS) :
Code:
1_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> GRUB4DOS (old) -> old floppy image ==> OK
2_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image ==> OK
3_ SYSLINUX 4.04 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> old floppy image ==> OK
4_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.04 -> old floppy image ==> OK
5_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> old floppy image ==> OK
6_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> GRUB4DOS (new) -> old floppy image ==> OK

7_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> GRUB4DOS (new) -> new floppy image ==> OK
8_ SYSLINUX 4.06 -> MEMDISK 4.06 -> new floppy image ==> OK


So, something changed between Syslinux v4.04 and v.4.06 in such a way that different (super)floppy images are needed for eRompaq.exe to work. And such change seems to be related to SYSLINUX, not to MEMDISK.

I am surprised about the suggestion (in that link posted by Icecube) to use fake CxHxS values in the VBR of the new superfloppy images, specially when we have FDUBCD superfloppy image using adequate CxHxS values an no failures reported.

I realize that the initial problem of ctschantz (the OP) has been solved by now with the new images, but this behavior with SYSLINUX 4.06 is certainly strange (at least to me).


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