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 Post subject: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:41 am 
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According to the list posted:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/index50.html

I would like to suggest to update the following already-included programs to their most updated versions before the final release of UBCD 5.0.

At the time I'm posting this, the updated versions are:

3.8.5 http://www.miray.de/products/sat.hdclone.html#free
(instead of 3.8.4a)

4.10 http://www.memtest.org/
(instead of 4.0)


About Seagate Seatools for DOS (and maybe also about Seagate Discwizard), I know there are newer versions than the ones published in http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/index50.html , but in these cases there may be valid reasons not to update them (like compatibility or beta or others). If you think it's ok, then please update those tools too just before the release of the final version of UBCD 5.0 .

Thank you in advance.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Will do that. Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:16 am 
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Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.1.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:45 am 
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As of 2010-May-20, Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.2.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:33 pm 
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New update. Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.3.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Location: California, USA
ady wrote:
Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.1.

ady wrote:
As of 2010-May-20, Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.2.

ady wrote:
New update. Miray published HDClone free new version, now 3.9.3.



Because every version of UBCD takes time, reporting every update is a waste because can only be updated to current version at the time before new release of UBCD (if included in update). I'm sure its on a check list of things to update before releasing UBCD updates.

Your enthusiasm is appreciated tho. :)

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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:01 am 
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StopSpazzing wrote:
I'm sure its on a check list of things to update before releasing UBCD updates.

Your enthusiasm is appreciated tho. :)


Well, I was almost sure there was no check list, but I thought a forum moderator knew better than I do, so I kept my mouth shut.

Since I posted the last "update" post, I was waiting for the next UBCD version. Now it came, but no update, no check list (according to the UBCD 5.03 update" post).

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining, and I'm sure building each UBCD's version is time-consuming.

But there is no check list to update the included programs. Since UBCD 5.02, Miray updated HDClone to 3.9.3, Samsung updated es-tool. Seagate updated seatools for DOS to 2.21, and also Seagate's DiscWizard. There is no Easeus Disk Copy version 2.4 (it is 2.3, and has been for a long time). Parted Magic is already 5.3 (and Icecube knows about it :) ).

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying there is any obligation from any of you. I'm not saying updating the included programs is a "must" every time. I'm just saying there is no check list.

Since I have no idea when UBCD is going to be updated, I reported the updates I knew about.

It, kinda of, was a waste of time, as you pointed out. Not because I reported each time I knew about an update (thinking I'm contributing with something). But because no check list exist even when a moderator says so; and after actually reporting about those updates, and after several months, no update from the ones reported was actually made to the last UBCD version (again, according to the "UBCD 5.03 update" post). I assume Victor has his valid reasons.

It is not a big deal. There is always customization. But no check list :(

In any case, keep up with the good work. UBCD is great.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Posts: 1294
Quote:
Well, I was almost sure there was no check list, but I thought a forum moderator knew better than I do, so I kept my mouth shut.


With V5.0.3, the objective was to tie up all the loose ends in the V5.0 series and keep the delta small. All app updates with go into V5.1 alpha, which I promise will be real soon.

FYI, I _do_ have a checklist, which all reported updates go into.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:19 am 
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Victor, thank you for your response.

Maybe you should add to the list several links and info that should be updated at the UBCD site?

For example, the "Customize", "Tutorials" and "FAQ" pages links to UBCD 4.xx probably could be updated, or at least new links to their "parallel" links to UBCD 5.xx versions could be added.

Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding UBCD2ISO to the methods of re-building the iso after customization and before burning. The use of UBCD2ISO should be simpler and better than building the customized iso with a burning software. I mean, the user should use UBCD2ISO to build the customized iso, and the burning software just to burn it (by using the "correct" way to burn iso's).

Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding all the info related to transferring UBCD to usb.

I'm almost sure there could be other items in need of some update (maybe the use of floppy images bigger than 2.88, support of imz, cab, zip and 7z...).

Moreover, there are items that could be "unified" and revised, since there are "Customize", "FAQ's", "Tutorials" (for 4.xx) and also the UBCD Wiki page with similar titles or targets.

Maybe the info / instructions will change again when the next 5.1 version gets out. That, I don't know.

One thing is in need of being included in your list for each and every time you update UBCD, and that is the info at the "News", "Version history" and "Known problems". I'm almost sure you have this one included in your list.

This is just my very humble opinion, and I completely understand that updating both, the program itself and the web pages, is very much time-consuming and not always easy.

So, despite the needed updates, I congratulate you and thank you (and your collaborators) for all the time and effort invested into the great UBCD.

BTW, Miray's HDClone has a new update, to 3.9.4. :)

TIA.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Quote:
For example, the "Customize", "Tutorials" and "FAQ" pages links to UBCD 4.xx probably could be updated, or at least new links to their "parallel" links to UBCD 5.xx versions could be added.


Can you give some examples of the V4.x content? I know some of the screenshots in the tutorials are outdated, but the concept/steps are still applicable.

Quote:
Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding UBCD2ISO to the methods of re-building the iso after customization and before burning. The use of UBCD2ISO should be simpler and better than building the customized iso with a burning software. I mean, the user should use UBCD2ISO to build the customized iso, and the burning software just to burn it (by using the "correct" way to burn iso's).


Hmmm.. the step for using ubcd2iso is detailed under "Generating customized ISO image" on the customization page. Or are you suggesting that we point to details for burning the ISO image after generating it?

Quote:
Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding all the info related to transferring UBCD to usb.


Again, what's missing from the section "Making UBCD memory stick" on the customization page?

Quote:
One thing is in need of being included in your list for each and every time you update UBCD, and that is the info at the "News", "Version history" and "Known problems". I'm almost sure you have this one included in your list.


Yup, it's on my todo list.

Quote:
This is just my very humble opinion, and I completely understand that updating both, the program itself and the web pages, is very much time-consuming and not always easy.


The time consuming part is one factor, plus many others. Which is why to some of your requests for updates, it might be easier if you (and others) could send me specific diffs rather than pointing out generics. I do work on the generics with every new release, but specific diffs is the fastest way to effect changes in between releases.

Quote:
BTW, Miray's HDClone has a new update, to 3.9.4. :)


Noted!


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:27 pm 
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Posts: 768
Victor Chew wrote:
Can you give some examples of the V4.x content? I know some of the screenshots in the tutorials are outdated, but the concept/steps are still applicable.


I will try to give some examples. Please, keep in mind that the following paragraphs are only my personal opinions. If I write something, that doesn't mean everybody should agree. It is just a personal opinion, and anyone can freely disagree.

The link

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/tutorials.html ->

-> Others -> "User-contributed tutorials in the web forum"

links to:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

which is part of the 4.xx categories.

Maybe you should post 1 new topic under the 5.xx categories, listing and linking (each link with a relevant title) to the topics of the 4.xx tutorials that are still relevant to the 5.xx series.

Then add a link to http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/tutorials.html -> Others,

something like "User-contributed tutorials in the web forum for 5.0.x UBCD versions "

and the previous:

"User-contributed tutorials in the web forum"

could be named something like:

"User-contributed tutorials in the web forum for 4.xx UBCD versions ".

Quote:
Quote:
Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding UBCD2ISO to the methods of re-building the iso after customization and before burning. The use of UBCD2ISO should be simpler and better than building the customized iso with a burning software. I mean, the user should use UBCD2ISO to build the customized iso, and the burning software just to burn it (by using the "correct" way to burn iso's).


Hmmm.. the step for using ubcd2iso is detailed under "Generating customized ISO image" on the customization page. Or are you suggesting that we point to details for burning the ISO image after generating it?


The link at

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/tutorials.html ->

-> "Burning the Ultimate Boot CD ISO to CDR/CDRW " ->
-> "Guides to using various freeware and not-freeware applications for burning an ISO image to CD or DVD"

is just listing apps, not giving practical instructions.

If some user doesn't know any freeware to correctly burn an iso image, then listing 17 freeware apps is not going to really help. Moreover, the so-called "instructions" at that linked page are not going to help a newbie, and a more experienced user doesn't need those "instructions".

Instead, I would list known "current" apps (better if freeware and portable/standalone) that are known to burn iso images. I wouldn't add so many instructions for each app. Adding "too many" possibilities may confuse the newbie, more than help him choose the "right" app for him. Practical info for the newbie to choose the "right" app for him would be:

-OS in which the app run
-minimal RAM and HDD space
-portable/standalone/setup_installation/All-in-one app.

For the newbie, a portable app has the advantage that he burns the UBCD iso, and then he can decide to keep that app, or move on to other possibilities. Or, in case he tried one application and it didn't work or fit the user's needs, then he just deletes the app's folder and move on to try the next app. No incompatibilities, no leftovers, less problems.

Victor, IMHO the UBCD website should be focused on UBCD, and on minimizing the questions about "how to burn the iso image?". There are many other sites where he could find specific instructions on burning. Here you are helping the user choose an application, so he can get to use UBCD.

I would take those links for "burning apps instructions" and put them in an "old links" category or something alike. A list of possible apps is enough.

Maybe, I would add instead (a link to) instructions for burning an iso image to 1 or 2 freeware very simple apps. The rest of the applications would be in a list, and if the user choose to use one of those, he could find instructions in their respective sites/forums.

IMHO, a newbie is not going to burn 1 iso image for the first time with a very complicated application. He just needs a simple application, with only one target: to burn iso images. Bloated apps, or All-In-One apps, are not the most suited ones for newbies. When they gain experience, they always could investigate other apps for themselves.

Now, you have "Tutorials" with links to burning apps. And you have also links in the "FAQ's". The FAQ about burning apps, titled " How do I create the Ultimate Boot CD from the ISO image file" should point to the respective "Tutorials" section, so you are maintaining the info in one place.

Additionally, there is the "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", also with links and instructions about burning, customizing UBCD, and putting UBCD in USB drive. So, you have a "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", a "Customizing UBCD" section, a "FAQ" section, and a "Tutorials" section. You see my point?

Quote:
Quote:
Another example of (IMHO) needed update could be adding all the info related to transferring UBCD to usb.


Again, what's missing from the section "Making UBCD memory stick" on the customization page?


The FAQ titled "Can I boot Ultimate Boot CD from a USB stick" talks about Plop, but nothing about the script included in UBCD. The "UBCD Wiki Tutorials" mentions "RMPrepUSB", but not the script included in UBCD. For a newbie, or even for more advanced users, which is the preferred method? If you have 3 different places talking about UBCD and USB, which one has the "best" instructions and the "best" tool? Don't you want those 3 places linked with each other? Or maybe a unified place to find the several possibilities? Maybe the rest of those places should have a link to one place explaining about the script, Plop, and RMPrepUSB possibilities?

I think is not about "missing" info, just about making some order.


I hope I am being clear enough, but if I don't, please don't hesitate to ask, and I will try to clarify.

Quote:
Quote:
This is just my very humble opinion, and I completely understand that updating both, the program itself and the web pages, is very much time-consuming and not always easy.


The time consuming part is one factor, plus many others. Which is why to some of your requests for updates, it might be easier if you (and others) could send me specific diffs rather than pointing out generics. I do work on the generics with every new release, but specific diffs is the fastest way to effect changes in between releases.


What do you mean when you say "specific diffs"?


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Quote:
...links to:
viewforum.php?f=6
which is part of the 4.xx categories.


I have updated the link to point to the UBCD V5 tutorial forum.

Quote:
Instead, I would list known "current" apps (better if freeware and portable/standalone) that are known to burn iso images. I wouldn't add so many instructions for each app. Adding "too many" possibilities may confuse the newbie, more than help him choose the "right" app for him. Practical info for the newbie to choose the "right" app for him would be:


I have removed the links from the tutorials page, and updated the links in the FAQ under the item "How to create the UBCD from ISO". That item also point to two free, simple apps dedicated to burning ISOs.

Most of the content on the UBCD web page did not appear overnight but evolved over time. Some of them (eg. the ISO burning tutorials) are user-contributed, and they contributed the content because other users have asked for them. As such, there may be deprecated content or inconsistencies etc. which we can only fix gradually.

Quote:
Additionally, there is the "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", also with links and instructions about burning, customizing UBCD, and putting UBCD in USB drive. So, you have a "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", a "Customizing UBCD" section, a "FAQ" section, and a "Tutorials" section. You see my point?


I don't get it. It's a _wiki_, from chrissake! If there's anything that is not right, fix it!

Anyway, the wiki is started by StopSpazzing, and I am counting on him and other users to maintain it. I simply don't have to the time to do it given all my other responsibilities.

Quote:
Maybe the rest of those places should have a link to one place explaining about the script, Plop, and RMPrepUSB possibilities?


I have updated the FAQ to point to the USB section on the customization page.

Quote:
What do you mean when you say "specific diffs"?


You just did it! Just tell me specific things that need to be fixed, instead of raising generic topics eg. "Some FAQ topics are old", or "There are a lot of misspellings on the UBCD website".


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Posts: 768
Victor Chew wrote:
Quote:
...links to:
viewforum.php?f=6
which is part of the 4.xx categories.


I have updated the link to point to the UBCD V5 tutorial forum.

Quote:
Instead, I would list known "current" apps (better if freeware and portable/standalone) that are known to burn iso images. I wouldn't add so many instructions for each app. Adding "too many" possibilities may confuse the newbie, more than help him choose the "right" app for him. Practical info for the newbie to choose the "right" app for him would be:


I have removed the links from the tutorials page, and updated the links in the FAQ under the item "How to create the UBCD from ISO". That item also point to two free, simple apps dedicated to burning ISOs.

Most of the content on the UBCD web page did not appear overnight but evolved over time. Some of them (eg. the ISO burning tutorials) are user-contributed, and they contributed the content because other users have asked for them. As such, there may be deprecated content or inconsistencies etc. which we can only fix gradually.


I understand. I think reporting those inconsistencies is a good thing, so the site can evolve. I am giving just an opinion, and if this can help, I'm glad it is useful. If not, then is just an opinion. No one gets hurt. :)

Quote:
Quote:
Additionally, there is the "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", also with links and instructions about burning, customizing UBCD, and putting UBCD in USB drive. So, you have a "UBCD Wiki Tutorials", a "Customizing UBCD" section, a "FAQ" section, and a "Tutorials" section. You see my point?


I don't get it. It's a _wiki_, from chrissake! If there's anything that is not right, fix it!


Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. It is not a question of something being wrong. It's a question of order, so the visitor/user knows where to go to find the info he is looking for. Having the actual info concentrated, wherever you think fits better, and the rest of the pages with links to those pages with the actual info, is easier to maintain, and to discover inconsistencies or outdated info. Again, just an opinion.

Quote:
Anyway, the wiki is started by StopSpazzing, and I am counting on him and other users to maintain it. I simply don't have to the time to do it given all my other responsibilities.


Ok, undestood. I'll try to collaborate with the wiki if I think of something.

Quote:
Quote:
Maybe the rest of those places should have a link to one place explaining about the script, Plop, and RMPrepUSB possibilities?


I have updated the FAQ to point to the USB section on the customization page.

Quote:
What do you mean when you say "specific diffs"?


You just did it! Just tell me specific things that need to be fixed, instead of raising generic topics eg. "Some FAQ topics are old", or "There are a lot of misspellings on the UBCD website".


Well, I didn't see a lot of misspellings, so I don't think I said something like that :) .

Anyway, I thought you were talking about the "bit" differences between programs to be updated, like the patch you publish between each version at the bottom of the download page.

If that would be the request, not only I wouldn't know how to do that; but in several cases I only know that a program was updated by its developers, but there is no changelog published. (this is the case, for example, of Miray's HDClone).

I want to thank you for the website improvements, and for just answering to the post.


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Quote:
I want to thank you for the website improvements, and for just answering to the post.


My pleasure! Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback!


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 Post subject: Re: miray HDClone and seagate seatools updates
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:54 pm 
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Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
ady wrote:
Ok, undestood. I'll try to collaborate with the wiki if I think of something.


Here is an idea that might make everything easier for both Victor and something to help out...you could easily make a wiki page with the name of Tools:NAME_OF_TOOL_HERE and post all versions and changes from previous versions so all Victor has to do is check the Tools Page and see if its worth waiting to put it in or if it needs to be added immediately. If you have that time and feel like it that is. You could also actively highlight or color the current version for the tool that you are making the wiki page for so everyone know which version is included in the latest version of UBCD. Again, just some ideas.

If you have any questions or need any assistance you can private message me. :D

_________________
~Just StopSpazzing~

Visit the UBCD Wiki: http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com
Please check your UBCD ISO MD5 Hash Sum; May prevent issues later on by not having an exact copy.

Currently Working on Common Issues and Repair Tips on the Wiki.


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