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 Post subject: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous files
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 4
Hi!
This is my first post, so I'd like to say "Hi!".

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a bug, but I thought the problem belongs in this subforum. Anyway, I've just updated Avira Rescue System on my custom UBCD5.03, using the Windows CMD file. The update process finished without errors. The Rescue System won't boot however, it shuts down with a "Self-Check failed" message. The error message should refer to the file which failed the check, but instead of a filename there's only a space character. I've downloaded the original ISO from the Avira site, and it boots fine. A Google search found some mentions of the error message, but no solution.

I've tried to manually find the source of the problem and went on and byte-by-byte compared the contents of the original ISO with the updated files in UBCD. I've found files in the UBCD "antivir" directory that are not in the original ISO. The combined filesize was something about 30 MB, which is quite substantial when trying to fit UBCD + some addons on a standard CD or smaller medium. I've deleted the additional files and copied some additional files from the original ISO which were missing/outdated in UBCD, but the rescue system still won't boot.

Questions:
1) is this a known problem, and is there a way of fixing it?
2) could you update the Avira update script for future UBCD versions to take care of the superfluous files?


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:10 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 769
IT_Support wrote:
I've just updated Avira Rescue System on my custom UBCD5.03, using the Windows CMD file.

You mean the script at
Code:
.\ubcd\tools\win32\antivirus\avira.cmd

right?

The script updates all Avira Antivir Rescue System related files, including the database and the boot menu.

Quote:
The update process finished without errors. The Rescue System won't boot however, it shuts down with a "Self-Check failed" message.


Can you detail more precisely what did you do? I mean, describe in details the whole process, from downloading ubcd503.iso, checking its MD5 value, expanding the ISO image, how exactly (step-by-step) you made the customization, and then continue with the re-mastering of your customized ubcd, finishing with the burned CD.

The reason I suggest describing the whole process step-by-step is to find out in which step "something" might went wrong. I have made the same customization process and it worked fine.

You may try re-doing the customization and testing the customized ISO image using a VM before burning a new CD or UFD.

Quote:
The error message should refer to the file which failed the check, but instead of a filename there's only a space character.


Does it return to the command line? Can you post the exact complete error message?

Could it be possible that you need to change to another Avira Antivir "desktop"?

Quote:
I've downloaded the original ISO from the Avira site, and it boots fine.


That's different. No customization and no boot multi-levels involved. But, that may indicate that you hardware has the resources to run the program, which discards part of the troubleshooting process.

Quote:
A Google search found some mentions of the error message, but no solution.


Have you also searched for the error message at Avira Antivir's Forum? Or at its help docs?

Quote:
I've tried to manually find the source of the problem and went on and byte-by-byte compared the contents of the original ISO with the updated files in UBCD. I've found files in the UBCD "antivir" directory that are not in the original ISO.


The "original ISO" image you mention, is the original UBCD503.iso downloaded, correct?

If that is correct, then there should be additional differences, not only the "antivir" directory. But, that particular folder, is supposed to be different after the avira-update script. That folder contains the new updated antivirus database.

Quote:
The combined filesize was something about 30 MB, which is quite substantial when trying to fit UBCD + some addons on a standard CD or smaller medium.


I don't know which "addons" you are talking about. The avira script only updates the relevant parts of your extracted ubcd503.iso image. Since it replaces the old antivirus database with updated files, there should be a size difference.

UBCD503.iso is about 301MiB, so you have "to add" more than another 350MiB to get to a full CD.

So maybe the real problem is in those "addons" (which you haven't mentioned)? That is one reason to describe the whole process of customization.

Quote:
I've deleted the additional files and copied some additional files from the original ISO which were missing/outdated in UBCD, but the rescue system still won't boot.

The "correct" method to update Avira Antivir included in UBCD is re-running the relevant script (again). Other files of the Avira package may actually have a negative impact (for example, incompatibilities in the boot process, which is not "only" Avira, but a chained multi-level boot process).

Quote:
Questions:
1) is this a known problem, and is there a way of fixing it?
2) could you update the Avira update script for future UBCD versions to take care of the superfluous files?


1) It might be. Search Avira's forum to find out. Or try from the original ubcd503.iso image again, checking its MD5 and so on (as I described above). Test it under VM before re-burning

2) Once again, which superfluous files? Let's find out if there is a bug in the script first. More details needed (as requested above).

Thank you for reporting. If you could provide the requested additional info, maybe UBCD can be improved.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 4
Thanks for the quick reply, but... Whoah, you don't do "simple and efficient", do you?

Anyway, I just did a quick test. Doing the same would have taken you a fraction of the amount of time it took you writing the reply, and would have gotten you useful answers in addition.

1) downloaded original UBCD503 image (md5 of 6cf0f4ff7f11ad2d78058541831c4bcc, which matches the one on the UBCD website)
2) extracted all files to a temp directory
3) ran the "ubcd\tools\win32\antivirus\avira.cmd" batch file
4) ran the "ubcd\tools\win32\ubcd2iso\ubcd2iso.cmd" batch file
5) booted the resulting ISO in VMWare

Same result as I have described in the original post: error message "Self check failed". Screenshot: Image

After the update, UBCD's "antivir" directory contains 55 files and is 94,440,205 bytes large. The same directory in the original Avira image contains 49 files and is 45,711,168 bytes large.

The following files are in UBCD's "antivir" directory, but not in the same directory of the original Avira image:
    antivir
    antivir.asc
    antivir0.vdf
    antivir1.vdf
    antivir2.vdf
    antivir3.vdf
    .storage\storage.db
The files add up to ~50 mb.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:43 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 769
As I already mentioned, I have done that customization myself in the past and it worked.

The reason that it does not work anymore is that Avira changed its Rescue System (As I previously suggested, search).

The current Avira Antivir Rescue System version has a self-check function, besides a boot process a bit different from the previous version, among other changes.

To use the Avira Antivir Rescue System that is already included in UBCD503, you could download the antivirus database from Avira's site (there is a separate download just for the antivirus database) and replace the old ones (search/ask at Avira's forum for more info on this), or use it with the "original" antivirus database (still useful in specific cases).

The other possibility is to manually download the current version of Avira Antivir Rescue system as an ISO image (which you already did; or take the ISO image in your "ubcd-temp" folder, if you haven't cleaned it yet).

Then, add the entire ISO image under the "custom" section of UBCD with the correct syslinux/grub4dos menu. There is no "size" problem here. UBCD503 is 301MiB, and the current Avira Antivir Rescue System is about 221MiB complete, so you can eventually burn it in a CD.

Of course, you could use that ISO by itself, or use SARDU to make a version of UBCD and AVIRA.

I did not tried these possibilities by myself.

I have already reported (in a PM) several days ago that the script needs to be altered to completely work with the current Avira Antivir Rescue System, but I did not know/check the exact reasons. Your error report points to the "correct" direction.

Technically, the update script itself works fine, but the current Avira Antivir Rescue System version has changed too much to make Avira work in UBCD as it is now in UBCD503, which makes the CURRENT script useless.

@Icecube, Victor:

Making the script to download and update the antivirus database "ONLY" (as oppose to upgrading the program too) would leave the current Avira version available in the future. Am I correct?

Other possibility is to find out how to make it compatible with the self-check (new directory structure also) and to the current boot method (if necessary).

The obvious alternative would be to add it as a complete ISO image in future UBCD versions (which is, IMHO, too big to make it "by default", but may be available as customization).


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 4
ady, to be frank, I'm not quite sure what to think of your replies.

If you would take some time to think about the matter it would probably become apparent to you that it's most probably not possible to just update the signatures, as the filenames and organization of the sig files obviously have been changed. That's why the "old" signature files are not being updated by the script and new ones are added. I presume the "vdf" extensions means "virus definition file".

Also, from what I can read on this forum, it's not possible to boot ISO files with UBCD, let alone Linux ISOs. If it is possible after all I'd love to know how to do it.

Also, if it indeed is possible to boot the Avira ISO with UBCD, there's still a major increase in filesize compared to the "old" files in UBCD. The reason is that the Avira ISO contains lots of additional files in the "system\usr" directory, which add up to about 118 MB.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 769
IT_Support wrote:
...most probably not possible to just update the signatures, as the filenames and organization of the sig files obviously have been changed. That's why the "old" signature files are not being updated by the script and new ones are added. I presume the "vdf" extensions means "virus definition file".


You need to read again. Let me put it this way (this is essentially what I said, in a different presentation, and trying to be more clear) :

Option A:
-do not run the script.
-use Avira "as-is", with the old VFD, without updating nor customizing UBCD.
-this is useful in specific cases (not every case), even when the vfd are not the latest ones.

Option B:
-do not run the script.
-go to Avira's website, search for the VFD-only download, and manually update the VFD files.
-beside the *.vfd files, there might be additional files to be added or updated.
-since the updates are incremental, there will be some files that should be as they where before, some will need to be updated, and some will need to be added.
-search Avira's forum and help documentation to find out the exact procedure how to do this manually.
-the procedure is "similar" to the situation where Avira is used in a computer with no online connection.

Option C:
-do not run the script.
-download the entire current/latest version of Avira Antivir Rescue System (as oppose to the previous option, where you download the VFD-only files).
-add the entire new ISO image to the "custom" section of UBCD.
-since you add the the entire ISO, the self-check function SHOULD be fine.
-in addition to the syslinux menu of the "custom" section of UBCD, you may need to customize other parts of UBCD503 (like updating syslinux to the latest stable version, since UBCD503 uses not-the-latest Syslinux version, and Avira uses even an older one).

Option D:
-do not run the script.
-use the latest Avira Antivir Rescue System in its own CD/UFD, separated from UBCD.

Option E:
-do not run the script
-use an additional tool like for example SARDU, to make 1 CD containing UBCD and Avira Antivir Rescue System together.

Option F:
-wait until other people (mods/devs/others) can check all the several differences between the previous Avira Antivir Rescue System 3.6.xx, which was included in UBCD 5.0.3. so they TRY to solve all the differences in one updated script that could work for the current/latest Avira Antivir Rescue System.
-this option may conclude in a better implementation and lower total size compared to the UBCD+Avira complete ISO's together.
-in addition to waiting, you can try to test and report every difference, besides the folder's structure you already reported, so the people that writes those UBCD scripts may try to solve it for a future UBCD (alpha/beta/final) version.

Quote:
Also, from what I can read on this forum, it's not possible to boot ISO files with UBCD, let alone Linux ISOs. If it is possible after all I'd love to know how to do it.


UBCD uses Syslinux or Grub4Dos. Editing, updating, trying, searching, reading... you could learn how to add (Linux) ISO images, whether expanding their content, or as full ISO image files.

It may be necessary to make it the other way around: adding UBCD to another boot menu.

You may find examples at the several sections of UBCD website http://www.ultimatebootcd.com, like "customize", "FAQ's", "Tutorials", the "wiki" and so on, and other external websites/forums, in addition to this UBCD forum.

The examples might not be specific to Avira, but they show the possibilities.

Quote:
Also, if it indeed is possible to boot the Avira ISO with UBCD, there's still a major increase in filesize compared to the "old" files in UBCD. The reason is that the Avira ISO contains lots of additional files in the "system\usr" directory, which add up to about 118 MB.


Yes, but the total is still under 650/700MB of 1 CD, if that is your concern. The goal is to pass the self-test of the latest Avira Antivir Rescue System, so you could try to use the program itself.

Using a VM, test the original UBCD503.iso, and you will see the differences (more boot options, different starting UI...).

As I mentioned in my previous post, I did not tried/tested myself the options I described here (and/or in my previous post), but the options ARE available/possible.

If you can report/test (differences, failure, success), then maybe Icecube (mod), StopSpazzing (mod), Victor (admin) and maybe also additional people, can work on changing the script to adapt it for newer versions of Avira Antivir Rescue System.

Your report points to at least part of the problem in the new Avira Antivir Rescue System (different boot menu, different folder's structure, and maybe different self-test method).


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 4
Thanks for the recap, though most of what you're saying is either a) obvious or b) irrelevant. I know how to add Linux distributions to UBDC, and I have my own custom UBCD build with additional tools (Acronis products, certain DOS based tools, etc.). That's one of the reasons why filesize is a problem for me, since I'm trying to maintain a collection of tools that still fit on a normal CD-R for servicing older machines.

Quote:
As I mentioned in my previous post, I did not tried/tested myself the options I described here (and/or in my previous post), but the options ARE available/possible.
That's the point right there. I'm not quite sure what your role in this forum is, but it seems to me you're trying to fill a position you're not quite fit to fill. I was hoping for some actual advice, not for someone telling me stuff that's obvious or that I already know. IMO, if you want to support users you should at least be certain that solutions suggested by you are feasible and will work.

I've already searched the forum and other websites for info on how to boot ISO images with GRUB4DOS, but from what I've read this will work only with very few images (or image types). If there's a surefire way of booting ISO images within UBCD I'd still love to learn about it.

I hope the devs will be able to fix this problem. I think my report is detailed enough, but if you need any additional information just let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:15 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 769
The info I posted may not be relevant to the script itself, but is relevant to give options to run Avira. As I said, running the original UBCD503 will work, updating manually will work, and the ISO image you will find in the "ubcd-temp" folder will work (and those alternatives I tried myself; just not once again after you opened this topic).

For older machines (since that's your target) you are probably better staying with other AV solutions than the latest Avira (because the resources it needs). Or you can learn how to manually update the relevant VFD (there are more than 1 type/group, according to the Avira version you want to use).

Another AV possibility is to customize UBCD with "V-Buster Antivirus Security System" (for DOS + Windows module) http://vbuster.virtualave.net/, which is still being maintained.

About booting ISO images, or alternatively its full contents, look at examples like:
http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com/index.php?title=Tutorials:Integrating_Slax_Live_CD
http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com/index.php?title=Tutorials:Integrating_Puppy_Linux

(which are not "perfect" step-by-step instructions, but they are useful examples anyway);
and others in this UBCD forum (they are there, search according to your needs). Boot_Land / reboot.pro and 911CD are additional forums to search for solutions.

An additional example is the UBCD 5.1 alpha 1, which uses FreeDOS in a full ISO. The only problem is that there is a (correctable) bug, which you need to correct manually before it would actually work.

The simple solution, not so obvious IMHO, is to use SARDU (already mentioned). It may not be exactly what you are looking for, because of YOUR size restrictions.

In any case, an AV solution burned in a CD is not going to be permanently current/updated, unless you use a CD-+RW and update it frequently. So you can either use UBCD503 "as-is" with the "old" (currently, a few months old) AV database, or update it manually, or simply use 1 additional AV solution with several AV engines (for which SARDU will be very helpful).

In addition to Avira, UBCD503.iso also contains 2 more AV engines. Their update scripts work, but their engines may not be the latest available. UBCD51a1 contains AVG also (or search this UBCD forum to find how to add it manually).

Now, the completely off-topic part about my roll. I am just a simple user, just like you. No particular roll. I keep posting with info (that may or may not be relevant, depending on the particular situation of each reader), and you keep adding irrelevant personal comments (they are irrelevant because no matter who the reader is, they do not contribute to any useful info to anyone).

The info you already provided to improve the Avira script in future UBCD versions is useful. If you have any other useful contribution, I am confident the Avira script may be improved for a future UBCD.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Here's how to get the latest Avira onto UBCD.

1) In c:\ubcd (assuming that's where you copied UBCD to), zap \antivir and \ubcd\boot\antivir.
2) From the latest Avira ISO, copy \antivir, \system and \avupdate to c:\ubcd
3) Copy the other files/folders to c:\ubcd\boot\antivir. You can skip avira.ico, boot.cat and isolinux.bin.
4) Edit c:\ubcd\boot\antivir\isolinux.cfg and prefix welcome.msg, vmlinuz and initrd.gz with "/ubcd/boot/antivir/".
5) Edit c:\ubcd\menus\others.cfg and under the Avira entry, change to "CONFIG /ubcd/boot/antivir/isolinux.cfg" (instead of syslinux.cfg).
6) Remake ISO and boot.

The fact that you need \system and \avupdate in the UBCD root directory sucks, and I haven't found a way to move it elsewhere (you'll get self-check failed). If anyone knows the trick, pray tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Avira Rescue CD not working after update & superfluous f
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:59 pm
Posts: 11
Victor Chew, there is a file you can modify to fix the problem. See the post here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3371&p=11401#p11401


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