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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Posts: 1294
ady and I have decided to come out with prototype builds based on Debian Live and Proteus respectively so as to get a feel of which direction we should proceed.

So here's my prototype based on Debian Live. It is based on "jessie" (the "testing" respository, one step removed from the current "stable" repository). GUI is based on lightdm, icewm and spacefm. I have so far included the following:

- GParted
- Clonezilla
- HardInfo
- WHDD
- Netsurf
- All Parted Magic modules i.e. xfprot/fprot, PC CMOS Cleaner, PC Disk Eraser and PC Regedit

Image size is 262MB. For testing, you can write it to a USB memory stick directly using Universal USB Installer as it is a hybrid ISO image.

Tested to run within 256MB RAM.

You can download it via this torrent file. md5sum of ISO image file is "a682e39cebb857e6ca6bd47ce39676f2".

Have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:06 am
Posts: 297
Location: FL
I get a 404 error when I click on the torrent link.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:38 am 
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Fixed! Should be alright now.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:59 am 
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Location: FL
Working fine now. Showing 2 seeds and 7 peers but only connecting to 1 peer. I'll let it go for a bit and see.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
I'm currently trying to download it but no seeds.

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~Just StopSpazzing~

Visit the UBCD Wiki: http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com
Please check your UBCD ISO MD5 Hash Sum; May prevent issues later on by not having an exact copy.

Currently Working on Common Issues and Repair Tips on the Wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:06 am
Posts: 297
Location: FL
I let it run for a while but never connected to the seeds. uTorrent was showing 2 then 1 seed but never connected to either and was showing 7 then 11 peers but only connected to 1 who showed as having 1% for over an hour.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
If I could get it, I would just put it on my server for everyone to download. :)

_________________
~Just StopSpazzing~

Visit the UBCD Wiki: http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com
Please check your UBCD ISO MD5 Hash Sum; May prevent issues later on by not having an exact copy.

Currently Working on Common Issues and Repair Tips on the Wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Arrghh.. just download directly from here please.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:57 pm
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Victor Chew I see you did what I said. And you are seeing exactly what I was expecting.

ady
Quote:
Regarding GParted latest version, after reading your post I tried to build a new xzm module and load it in Porteus 3.0 LXDE i486. For some reason, I have only a partial success. I'll investigate more. There is a chance my partial failure is related to the fact that an older version of GParted is already installed in Porteus by default.


ady kind of on the right track for the defect but missing it. The old dependancies for the old version of GParted are installed so snapping the new version of GParted in two. GParted is dependancy senstive. Old version with new dependancies break and new version with old dependancies break. This is why I was so against Porteus its going to be a on going battle getting newest gparted working even worse be sure it working. Yes I said from the start gparted would be your worst enemy. If gparted works you are over half way to having what is need. The dependancies off everything else are almost nothing. Choosing debian path equals very low issues to making the image. Ok one issue windows users have to install debian in a virtual machine to customise(I don't rate this as a major issue).

ady I guess you can see what I was complaining about now why your distrobution selection was not exactly wise.

Even that Victor Chew has rebuilt from nothing instead of customising off the Gparted live disc the Gparted live packages are upstream in debian testing. So still using gparted developer tested versions.

Victor Chew you missed 2 tweaks that can be done to the debian live. Number 1 add a zram and number 2 turn on ksm.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 5&p=189838 for talk about zram.

I tested current image at 196 ram and it works Victor. So a system with 256 meg stick with 64m decated to video card it will run. This is about the min it will run at without adding zram. With compression may get to 128m but the question is do we need to support systems with less than 256 megs of ram. Even just stopping at 256 adding zram is a good idea.

I did not look at filesystem compression as of yet. There are a few tweaks like -always-use-fragments to allow compression to work better comes with a little performance cost.

There is a missing tool from the image. testdisk sometimes required with gparted when things have gone wrong. I know testdisk is provided outside the live but having to reboot when you have got into the live because the drive is messed up badly is a pain.

There is a look issue change the ubuntu icon in windows manager start button to a debian one or ubcd icon.

I think for a first attempt you have done very well. Victor. Most people miss the optimisations. The instructions to build a debian live cd are very well documented. At worst you end up with a not fully optimised image requiring a little more ram. Yes lack of zram is pushing the ram requirements up.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Great! I will add these to my todo:

- Add zram, ksm
- Look at tweaks like -always-use-fragments
- Add testdisk
- Change ubuntu icon to UBCD

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Posts: 12
Victor Chew if you have not found this yet. If you are making debian live cds a lot it pays to follow.
http://live.debian.net/ other name live-systems.org Yes debian has claimed quite a cool domain.

Under the live-systems.org domain they have a on-line image builder. http://cgi.build.live-systems.org/cgi-bin/live-build for those users who don't want to install a debian envornment.

Victor Chew so I would put as final step from having a live cd is seeing if the on-line website production is compadible enough. The on-line production has limitations on what can and cannot be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Here's a new build of Debian UBCD:

Version: 0.1.1a
Torrent: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download/ ... so.torrent
Direct: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download/dbubcd011a.iso
md5sum: 946f0259293bf6aed25e2a1f2b5ebf63

Size is now 398MB due to inclusion of ClamAV databases (100+MB).

Changelog:

V0.1.1a
- Changed taskbar menu image to UBCD button
- Added ZRAM
- Added KSM
- Added "-always-use-fragments" to MKSQUASHFS_OPTIONS
- Added ClamAV and ClamTK
- Added TrueCrypt
- Added gsmartcontrol
- Added testdisk/photorec


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:27 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 768
Victor,

I am posting wrt your prior 0.1.0.a version. It is possible that you already addressed some issues in the new 0.1.1a, but I have not downloaded it yet.

_ In the GUI DE, there should be a (DE) "Preferences" (or "settings" or "options") menu entry, which should also include an option to change the screen resolution. If the screen resolution is the only specific preference to be added, then a "preferences" menu item is not needed (just a desktop icon).

_ In "Desktop Settings", the WM options should be available by right click by default. The current default setting is not to show the WM menu.

_ "Desktop Settings" indicates "xterm" as virtual terminal, but it doesn't find it (as it is not the virtual terminal that it is installed).

_ One or at most two Work-spaces by default, instead of 4. If taking out the whole feature would reduce dependencies (required resources, size, RAM, etc.) I would suggest taking out the Workspaces feature altogether (after all, this is a special-purpose snapshot Live system, not a full-feature OS).

_ If this is based on Debian Testing, why/how the Ubuntu icon ended up in there? I really would like to know.

_ Is the "live/modules/" directory actually being used? Can it be used for customizations/updates?

_ About the Syslinux boot menu:
_ Clonezilla should also have its own Syslinux boot option, so to be able to skip the DE.
_ Almost all files under the "isolinux/" directory are either unnecessary, not used, or inadequate.
_ If possible, the Syslinux version should be the same as in UBCD (official upstream 4.07), so additional improvements could be applied to the cfg file. (The current Syslinux version in Debian Stable already includes enough backports so to implement at least part of the improvements to the cfg file(s).)
_ vga=788 (or any particular value) is not adequate for distribution. I would suggest either:
_ using something similar to what GParted/Clonezilla Live does, prompting questions while booting; and/or,
_ having a visible "first" icon on the desktop so to adjust screen resolution; and/or,
_ having an initial "settings wizard" as Slacko and other Puppies have.
From the above, I'd rather have the one that would require less resources / dependencies.
I have more specific comments about the boot menu, but perhaps I should wait til your next alpha release(?).


_ There is a need to update and/or add packages related to "rescue tasks". For example, IMHO there is no point in adding/using latest GParted without including the latest fdisk (util-linux), mtools,... If this UBCD Live Debian-based distro is going to use old packages (“old” in the sense that there are updates available upstream), then I'd rather use GParted Live directly. There are valid exceptions, such as parted, or some GTK-related tools, but those should be indeed *exceptions*.

_ The name (of the ISO image, the boot menu,...) should not start with "Debian", but with, "UBCD". If it is a snapshot of "Debian Testing" (with additional appropriate changes/updates), then these words could be added *after* UBCD, and even a "yyyyMMMdd" too. Also, using "UBCD Live" (Debian...) (as "GParted/Clonezilla Live", for example) would be convenient, as this Debian-based system is a Live snapshot only, with no "installation" procedure, package management,...

[edit]
Typos.
[/edit]


Last edited by ady on Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
As my time is rather fragmented this week, I will post my answers in multiple parts as schedule permits.

Quote:
_ There is a need to update and/or add packages related to "rescue tasks". For example, IMHO there is no point in adding/using latest GParted without including the latest fdisk (util-linux), mtools,... If this UBCD Live Debian-based distro is going to use old packages (“old” in the sense that there are updates available upstream), then I'd rather use GParted Live directly. There are valid exceptions, such as parted, or some GTK-related tools, but those should be indeed *exceptions*.
Could you provide a list of packages that you think should be added? fdisk is already present, though I am not sure why anyone would want to use it over the more powerful GParted. Also, why is mtools crucial for rescue tasks? It would be easy to add it as it is just a Debian package, but I would like to rationalize its inclusion.

Quote:
_ The name (of the ISO image, the boot menu,...) should not start with "Debian", but with, "UBCD". If it is a snapshot of "Debian Testing" (with additional appropriate changes/updates), then these words could be added *after* UBCD, and even a "yyyyMMMdd" too. Also, using "UBCD Live" (Debian...) (as "GParted/Clonezilla Live", for example) would be convenient, as this Debian-based system is a Live snapshot only, with no "installation" procedure, package management,...
"Debian UBCD (DBUBCD)" is a temporary placeholder, fashioned after "FreeDOS UBCD (FDUBCD)". Suggestions are welcome. I have considered "UBCD Live", but was hesitant to remove the reference to Debian. Other alternatives include "UBCD Magic", "UBCD Rescue" etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
BTW, I had wanted to do this all along but never got around to it.

If you want to build dbubcd.iso yourself, do the following:

1. Install Debian Wheezy

2. sudo apt-get install live-build

3. sudo apt-get install apt-cacher

4. Create a project directory eg. "mkdir dbubcd"

5. Download and extract config011a.txz to the project directory

6. Run "./mk_dbubcd.sh"

To save space, the virus databases are not included. To include them, copy from "live/modules" on the ISO to "config/includes.binary/live/modules" in the project directory.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Posts: 768
@Victor,

Regarding parted, fdisk, mtools, dosfstools,... For GParted to support different tasks for different filesystems, it requires some "background" packages. You can see the available / allowed tasks in one of the GParted menus, where it also lists the tools it uses / requires for each task. There might be some cases where GParted lists a set of alternative tools and can use just one of them.

As to why would anyone use fdisk instead of GParted, it depends on the needs. Just to give one example, GParted Live uses scripts so to be "installed" onto USB drives, and those scripts use fdisk. Another one: fdisk can be used from pure text terminal without needing a GUI.

You _could_ avoid adding these type of tools, but then what would be the point of this snapshot Live distro? A user could just use GParted and Clonezilla Live, plus the basic UBCD, plus Rescatux, plus Finnix, plus... and then merge them with one Syslinux menu.

I guess one possible list of tools could be based on PMagic's one, which is posted in its website (and other similar "rescue" projects). Of course I am not talking about the whole distro, but about the basic "rescue-tasks" packages.


Now, regarding the name... IMHO it shall not start with "Debian...", as you are not making a distro to be distributed by the Debian community. If not for anything else, at least for some potential legal issue? (who knows)

IMHO, it should also include the "Live" word, as to discard upfront any doubt that this is not an installable full distro. The case is that this is a specific snapshot of a specific OS, to be used "Live" only. In some places, it would not be called "distro", but I am using this term loosely here just to be concise (and I have no intention to claim that this is or isn't a "distro" nor to publish it as a "distro" at this moment; so, for any potential reader out there, let's avoid the whole terminology war).

Generally speaking, Linux distros add some additional detail to their ISO images' names if they release and/or maintain more than one at the same time. For instance:
_ i486 / i686 / x32 / x64...
_ "Live" / "standard"
_ XFCE / LXDE / GNOME / KDE / JWM...
_ "base" / "core" / "basic" / "GUI" / "text" / "rescue" / "multimedia"...
_ "Debian edition" / "Fedora edition" / "Ubuntu edition" / "Slackware edition"...
_ current / rolling / LTS / 6.0.4 / 7.1 / 201404 / 20140416...
_ specific "made-up" names

and there are probably more. Additionally, there are terms such as "distro", "spin-off", "edition", "variant"...

At this point, where there is only one group of tools being put together, with one architecture in mind, based on one distro, using one desktop environment, to be used Live only, as non-updatable snapshots, without easy customization... I am of the opinion that there is currently no need to add "too many" details to the name of the ISOs. At this point, mentioning "UBCD Live yyyyMMdd" completely defines the ISO. For now, you might want to add "alpha" too.

I already have more comments about the Syslinux boot menu, but I'll leave them for a future post, after you catch up with the rest of the answers to my prior questions (in my previous post).

TIA,
Ady.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Quote:
_ In the GUI DE, there should be a (DE) "Preferences" (or "settings" or "options") menu entry, which should also include an option to change the screen resolution. If the screen resolution is the only specific preference to be added, then a "preferences" menu item is not needed (just a desktop icon).
Will work on that.

Quote:
_ In "Desktop Settings", the WM options should be available by right click by default. The current default setting is not to show the WM menu.
That can be enabled in "Desktop Settings, Desktop, Right-click shows WM menu". Don't see the point in that though. It merely replicates the application menu at the bottom left. Much prefer the SpaceFM menu.

Quote:
_ "Desktop Settings" indicates "xterm" as virtual terminal, but it doesn't found it (as it is not the virtual terminal that it is installed).
Will fix.

Quote:
_ If this is based on Debian Testing, why/how the Ubuntu icon ended up in there? I really would like to know.
The window manager is icewm. The theme I ended using is IceBuntu, which replicates the Ubuntu LAF under icewm. Don't ask me why. I tried about 10+ themes and none look better than this to my eyes. If you can suggest a nicer theme, do let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
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Quote:
_ Is the "live/modules/" directory actually being used? Can it be used for customizations/updates?
Yes it is. All txz files with this directory will be extracted to root. The script to do that is in "/etc/rc.local". That was how I migrated the PMUBCD modules with minimal changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:30 am 
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Posts: 768
Victor Chew wrote:
Quote:
_ Is the "live/modules/" directory actually being used? Can it be used for customizations/updates?
Yes it is. All txz files with this directory will be extracted to root. The script to do that is in "/etc/rc.local". That was how I migrated the PMUBCD modules with minimal changes.


Any chance you could mention what changes were required? It might help for other similar customizations.

***
In the "isolinux/" directory:

1_ (Optional) Edit live.cfg,
1.1_ Add
UI menu.c32
in the first row.
1.2_ Add an adequate
MENU TITLE
directive before the first 'LABEL' directive.
1.3_ Save the new live.cfg.

2_ Delete all files except live.cfg, isolinux.bin, menu.c32.
3_ Change the file name of live.cfg to syslinux.cfg.
4_ Change the parent directory name from "isolinux/" to "syslinux/", which will work with both, optical media and USB drives.
5_ Adapt the ISO-building scripts so to use "syslinux/isolinux.bin" instead of "isolinux/isolinux.bin".

Note: If necessary / desired, edit the "md5sum.txt" content so to reflect the above changes, before (re)building a new ISO.


***

Is there any chance of getting rid of unused (or empty) directories? For instance, is the ".disk/" directory required to be included in the ISO image? If it is not really required but it is convenient, then I'd like to know in which situations.

The reason I mention ".disk/" as example is because, under Linux, this is "typically" a valid name, but under certain filesystems (like ISO9660 Level 1, or under FAT without LFN, as examples), it is not. So reducing the presence of this type of directories also reduces some potential compatibility problems.

Another example could be the "games" directories inside the sqfs (usr/, usr/local/).


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Quote:
_ One or at most two Work-spaces by default, instead of 4. If taking out the whole feature would reduce dependencies (required resources, size, RAM, etc.) I would suggest taking out the Workspaces feature altogether (after all, this is a special-purpose snapshot Live system, not a full-feature OS).
I don't think taking it out will reduce much of anything, since it is integral to icewm and not external. It will be easy to restrict to only one workspace though, but I'd like to KIV for now and get more feedback before acting.

Quote:
_ Clonezilla should also have its own Syslinux boot option, so to be able to skip the DE.
Don't quite understand this. Clonezilla is a Debian package that was included in the live build. What does that have to do with a syslinux boot option?

Quote:
_ Almost all files under the "isolinux/" directory are either unnecessary, not used, or inadequate.
The files under "isolinux" are generated by live build. I edited some of those files by using "config/includes.binary".


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