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 Post subject: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:11 am 
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Parted Magic 2013_09_26 has been released, but it is no longer available for free. What can we do?


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 Post subject: Re: UBCD V5.2.6 is available for download
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:12 am 
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Explorer09 wrote:
Parted Magic 2013_09_26 has been released, but it is no longer available for free. What can we do?


There are alternatives, depending on the specific task a user needs.

IMO, future UBCD releases should not include "full" distros. Leaving the special modules, and adding the pm2ubcd scripts, would provide enough options for customizations.

Nowadays, there are enough user-friendly methods for users to merge other ISO images with UBCD.


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 Post subject: Re: UBCD V5.2.6 is available for download
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 pm 
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More info here: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTQzNTI

BTW, download has been removed from SF page.

The primary reason why Parted Magic is included in UBCD is primarily due to NTFS access, which is valuable in a system recovery situation.

Time to look for another small distro with NTFS support to include in UBCD. I am opened to suggestions!


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 Post subject: Re: UBCD V5.2.6 is available for download
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:12 pm 
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You could go back to using System Rescue CD, its running about 420MB for the ISO so the size is pretty close to PartedMagic. I don't do much with Linux as far as building/programming but would be nice to keep at least something included for recovery and such. TinyCore or CorePlus looks like it may be a nice starting point, could build it up to what's needed/wanted if not too problematic.

Could this be put into a new post/thread so it's a bit more visible? May get more posts that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:03 am 
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Split into new topic. Thanks to Piney for the suggestion.

Seems to me SystemRescueCd is a reasonable alternative.

It's a shame the custom modules we developed for Parted Magic can no longer be used. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:03 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 768
If the main goal is to have easy access to NTFS volumes, I don't think a big Linux distro is the best choice.

First, the latest version of pmagic that was already included in UBCD could still be used in future UBCD releases. There is no reason to rush any such change.

The pm2ubcd scripts can still be used by users that have access to any version of pmagic, included older and/or newer ones. IMHO, the scripts could be included (and other similar scripts could be created and added for other distros). Note: Although I was / am involved in the creation of the pm2ubcd scripts, I think I am being objective regarding this matter.

If the time comes that pmagic (in whichever version) is not included in UBCD, the special modules can still be included, or provided here as additional optional downloads, so to easily be merged by users.

If other Linux distros are bundled, it could be useful to consider the ones that not only provide access to NTFS volumes, but that can also take advantage of pmagic modules (or with a slight modification of the package).

If such distro can run in older hardware too, and its size is minimal, those are very important features. If the distro is actively maintained, and with an active forum / community, that's an important plus.

Basically, distros that support some form of "txz" archive and that use "modules" could be potential candidates.

Examples:
Code:
puppy (Slacko)
Slax
porteus
tinycore(plus)
Slitaz

and their respective flavors, modules, derivatives and spin offs.

Secondary candidates:

Code:
DSL
Knoppix
4MLinux


Adding tutorials in the wiki regarding the modules, or how to merge them with UBCD, would be IMO a better option than bundling any full distro. The user would be able to merge and update whichever distro with whichever optional module.

But, again, I think that keeping pmagic version 2013_08_01 in the next release of UBCD (whenever it comes out) is adequate for now. Please, let's not unnecessarily rush such change.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Location: FL
ady wrote:
If the main goal is to have easy access to NTFS volumes, I don't think a big Linux distro is the best choice.

First, the latest version of pmagic that was already included in UBCD could still be used in future UBCD releases. There is no reason to rush any such change.

..........

If such distro can run in older hardware too, and its size is minimal, those are very important features. If the distro is actively maintained, and with an active forum / community, that's an important plus.

Basically, distros that support some form of "txz" archive and that use "modules" could be potential candidates.

Examples:
Code:
puppy (Slacko)
Slax
porteus
tinycore(plus)
Slitaz


................

But, again, I think that keeping pmagic version 2013_08_01 in the next release of UBCD (whenever it comes out) is adequate for now. Please, let's not unnecessarily rush such change.


I agree with all of these, especially keeping with something small when you do make a change. Going with something smaller does allow for updates that increase size of the other included tools and such. Gives you some overhead to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Quote:
But, again, I think that keeping pmagic version 2013_08_01 in the next release of UBCD (whenever it comes out) is adequate for now. Please, let's not unnecessarily rush such change.
Agree. I am not pushing to rush into a change either. Just to start the ball rolling with ideas and discussion. Because eventually, new hardware will force our hands to upgrade to a more recent distro.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:04 am 
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Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:26 am
Posts: 768
It would be interesting to test pmagic modules with the aforementioned distros and report back.

Generally speaking, it might be necessary to make some change. For example, some distro might need some additional boot code. Other might need to execute some script so to convert the pmagic module into a slightly different format. In some case, the module might need a different tree structure. Some distro might work better when adding also additional modules from its own repo (as opposed to only adding the pmagic modules and using the distro "as-is").


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 Post subject: Re: UBCD V5.2.6 is available for download
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
Victor Chew wrote:
More info here: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTQzNTI

BTW, download has been removed from SF page.

The primary reason why Parted Magic is included in UBCD is primarily due to NTFS access, which is valuable in a system recovery situation.

Time to look for another small distro with NTFS support to include in UBCD. I am opened to suggestions!


Very sad if people are complaining because of this. I feel bad for him.

I would have to agree with everything said before.

Curious... Is it possible maybe in the future to create a "bare bones/lite version" if you will, UBCD that doesn't include pmagic, so if people wanted to add a more up to date system OS such as system rescue cd themselves, they could, without increasing the size of the ending ISO or worrying about out dated software/OS and having to remove it? Maybe this is an unnecessary request...

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Please check your UBCD ISO MD5 Hash Sum; May prevent issues later on by not having an exact copy.

Currently Working on Common Issues and Repair Tips on the Wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
Quote:
Curious... Is it possible maybe in the future to create a "bare bones/lite version" if you will, UBCD that doesn't include pmagic, so if people wanted to add a more up to date system OS such as system rescue cd themselves, they could, without increasing the size of the ending ISO or worrying about out dated software/OS and having to remove it? Maybe this is an unnecessary request...
I will prefer not to go down that route again unless the reasons are extremely compelling. More things for me to get wrong managing two ISO images for each release, but I think it's relatively easy for ppl for rip out PM and put in their own distro given how things are cleanly partitioned within UBCD.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:23 pm
Posts: 164
Hey everyone. Look at the text at the new Parted Magic download page
https://partedmagic.com/downloads
Quote:
WARNING! A few sites on the internet are offering a file called pmagic_2013_08_01.iso for free download. This version was released with a very destructive USB corruption bug in the Linux kernel. We removed this file from our official mirrors to minimize the damage and quickly released version 2013_08_10 to replace it. The 2013_08_01 version also included a bug in the OLD Secure Erase GUI that would allow a user to erase an ATA disk through a USB interface. In some cases it would brick the expensive USB device. The OLD GUI would also set the secure erase password to NULL by default and using the disk on a Lenovo BIOS is not possible because a password cannot be entered. Version 2013_09_26 does not contain these flaws and is completely safe to use. Sorry for any inconvenience or loss suffered by using this unofficial/unsupported FREE pmagic_2013_08_01.iso. You have been warned.


Perhaps we could add this warning on the UBCD homepage, until we have a replacement for Parted Magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
Victor Chew wrote:
Quote:
Curious... Is it possible maybe in the future to create a "bare bones/lite version" if you will, UBCD that doesn't include pmagic, so if people wanted to add a more up to date system OS such as system rescue cd themselves, they could, without increasing the size of the ending ISO or worrying about out dated software/OS and having to remove it? Maybe this is an unnecessary request...
I will prefer not to go down that route again unless the reasons are extremely compelling. More things for me to get wrong managing two ISO images for each release, but I think it's relatively easy for ppl for rip out PM and put in their own distro given how things are cleanly partitioned within UBCD.


I understand what you wouldn't want to. :)

Explorer09 wrote:
Hey everyone. Look at the text at the new Parted Magic download page
https://partedmagic.com/downloads
Quote:
WARNING! A few sites on the internet are offering a file called pmagic_2013_08_01.iso for free download. This version was released with a very destructive USB corruption bug in the Linux kernel. We removed this file from our official mirrors to minimize the damage and quickly released version 2013_08_10 to replace it. The 2013_08_01 version also included a bug in the OLD Secure Erase GUI that would allow a user to erase an ATA disk through a USB interface. In some cases it would brick the expensive USB device. The OLD GUI would also set the secure erase password to NULL by default and using the disk on a Lenovo BIOS is not possible because a password cannot be entered. Version 2013_09_26 does not contain these flaws and is completely safe to use. Sorry for any inconvenience or loss suffered by using this unofficial/unsupported FREE pmagic_2013_08_01.iso. You have been warned.


Perhaps we could add this warning on the UBCD homepage, until we have a replacement for Parted Magic.


Hmm, not sure about that, as we don't provide a warranty for included software...I would mention an major issue and link to it.

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Visit the UBCD Wiki: http://wiki.ultimatebootcd.com
Please check your UBCD ISO MD5 Hash Sum; May prevent issues later on by not having an exact copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:59 pm
Posts: 1294
I have added a link to the warning under the Parted Magic entry on the home page.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:35 am
Posts: 5
The other reason I've found to use Parted Magic is because it comes bundled with Clonezilla... however, the version in the last free Parted Magic does seem to be a bit buggy with some of my machines.

Sysresccd doesn't have Clonezilla, but it does have nearly all the tools Clonezilla uses to create images, if somebody's willing to do some work by hand to create/restore Clonezilla images. As far as I can tell, it's just missing gdisk/sgdisk, which it used to have but seem to have gotten pulled(?)... though man, it'd be nice if it just rolled Clonezilla in. There used to be a live CD that did just that (combine Clonezilla and Sysresccd) a few years back, but the project is defunct now afaik.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:38 am 
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Posts: 768
slinkygn wrote:
The other reason I've found to use Parted Magic is because it comes bundled with Clonezilla... however, the version in the last free Parted Magic does seem to be a bit buggy with some of my machines.

Sysresccd doesn't have Clonezilla, but it does have nearly all the tools Clonezilla uses to create images, if somebody's willing to do some work by hand to create/restore Clonezilla images. As far as I can tell, it's just missing gdisk/sgdisk, which it used to have but seem to have gotten pulled(?)... though man, it'd be nice if it just rolled Clonezilla in. There used to be a live CD that did just that (combine Clonezilla and Sysresccd) a few years back, but the project is defunct now afaik.


This topic is not about a specific tool in pmagic. IMO, Sysresccd is not the best option to add to UBCD *by default*. It can be easily merged as a customization, and I'm sure some users are already doing it.

Regarding clonezilla; I repeat, this topic is not about any specific tool. If you want clonezilla, just use clonezilla-live from http://www.clonezilla.org/downloads.php and/or optionally merge it with UBCD.

If anyone has experience with those distros mentioned before (small, maintained, requiring low resources, with support for txz) let's focus this topic on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
slinkygn wrote:
The other reason I've found to use Parted Magic is because it comes bundled with Clonezilla... however, the version in the last free Parted Magic does seem to be a bit buggy with some of my machines.

Sysresccd doesn't have Clonezilla, but it does have nearly all the tools Clonezilla uses to create images, if somebody's willing to do some work by hand to create/restore Clonezilla images. As far as I can tell, it's just missing gdisk/sgdisk, which it used to have but seem to have gotten pulled(?)... though man, it'd be nice if it just rolled Clonezilla in. There used to be a live CD that did just that (combine Clonezilla and Sysresccd) a few years back, but the project is defunct now afaik.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with ady. Specific tools/cd's can be easily added.

ady wrote:
This topic is not about a specific tool in pmagic. IMO, Sysresccd is not the best option to add to UBCD *by default*. It can be easily merged as a customization, and I'm sure some users are already doing it.

Regarding clonezilla; I repeat, this topic is not about any specific tool. If you want clonezilla, just use clonezilla-live from http://www.clonezilla.org/downloads.php and/or optionally merge it with UBCD.

If anyone has experience with those distros mentioned before (small, maintained, requiring low resources, with support for txz) let's focus this topic on them.


Let's take a look through: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Minimal_Linux_distros

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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:27 am 
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Hi, I just joined to point out that the custom modules for Parted magic need not go to waste.

Parted Magic is not payware, it is still freeware as everything inside is still GPL software. What this distro maintainer is doing, is charging for a faster download speed from his servers.

So if someone were to pass it on for inclusion into UBCD, it is perfectly legal. Don't take my words for it, read the GPL FAQ here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic

Quote:
If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge? (#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic)

No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 462
Location: California, USA
opavi wrote:
Hi, I just joined to point out that the custom modules for Parted magic need not go to waste.

Parted Magic is not payware, it is still freeware as everything inside is still GPL software. What this distro maintainer is doing, is charging for a faster download speed from his servers.

So if someone were to pass it on for inclusion into UBCD, it is perfectly legal. Don't take my words for it, read the GPL FAQ here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic

Quote:
If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge? (#DoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic)

No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.


https://partedmagic.com/downloads

1st: Can you explain how to legally obtain a copy of Parted Magic from this page. While the software included is GPL, the distro binding all those together requires payment to use/obtain. You can easily get the software yourself and combine it into your own distro if you like.

2nd:
Quote:
Click on the Buy Now button to purchase Parted Magic. You will be redirected to Paypal for payment. The download link will then be emailed to the same address used in the Paypal transaction. The link in the email will be valid for 24 hours or 9 attempts, whichever comes first. This transaction is for the current version and only the current version.
meaning if we purchased it, would only be for the current version, thereby requiring purchases each and every time there is an update.



Curious if he is aware of the GPL license, about being able to freely distribute it after purchase.

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 Post subject: Re: Suggestions for replacement of Parted Magic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:53 am
Posts: 2
That is the unfortunate and sad part about this new paid distribution scheme. Charging for each and every download, leave a very bad taste for users, it appears on the surface a rather $$$ oriented scheme; which he has a right to pursue but it does feels very much like it is going against the general spirit of everyone else freely distributing free GPL software.

Legally it is not a issue for UBCD to include newer pmagic, the issue now is the cost incur to directly obtain it, if UBCD maintainer were to choose.

Alternatively, we can source out other free distribution channels, I think bittorrent is already happening. Or rely on the generosity of UBCD users in donating funds or sharing the actual file itself here for future UBCD inclusion.


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